wine to talk among them themselves. they key very much for coming. [inaudible conversations] >> for those who need a place to set their receding in the wings you are welcome to set -- stand but this

conversation of of christian witness and of course, with the new book the benedictine option but before i introduce our speaker one-two talk about our speaker the other sponsor of a two think the editor of plowed magazine for contributing so much to making this evening happen it was really his idea to have a big event mike this to mark the publication of this important book and also the american conservative

and a tireless logger laugh laugh as we all know as of right now he is posting laugh laugh and for those folks that plow and how to move forward in tumultuous times but then there is a spiritual earthquake in be will think what that really means. faithfully in the context and the american conservative is on

everybody's chair and there are subscription marks in the magazine ready for you to fill out because we are cheap at first, that is not true we were assuming that an audience like this we assume keyword subscribers already. and if yours was lost in the mail will be happy with someone to subscribe. it is my honor to introduce our speaker as an accomplished author and then of course, tonight teeleven

really rod dreher is a teacher where tens of thousands of people come regularly or daily it is the only place on-line real can eavesdrop but they are responded to and ideas are developed as a more general in conversation. and charles taylor can serious ideas and serious people or where else can you go in before the same

posting it is an ongoing summer as they are trying to think about other things and as those role as teacher and followed by a panel discussion is remarks how to live as christians in the 21st century it is my pleasure please join me to welcome rod dreher. [applause] >> as your teacher tonight anybody who buys the copy of the way out will receive and

they produce great to be back in the york and i am happy to see old friends and from all over. thank you very much. this is a really important time for all of us to come together and talk about what we do in this moment with the time that we have so you may have seen recently criticism of meat and teeleven to be alarmist but the critics are right to raise certain extent i am alarmist and the condition of the church within it if you are not alarmed your

failing to redesign the time you're not paying attention by june not claim the world is coming to an end after all the o'bannon knows no day or hour but i am claiming that the world is coming to an end indiscretions don't take radical actions right now if western civilization will not last for long and a few years ago in intellectual said it is obligatory to compare today's situation with the decline of the roman empire in the final final-- will still function as a framework but practicing the vital energy was depleted going on to

lament the collapse of the forces that sustain us that was pope benedict xvi with the air of the global from in existence for nearly 2,000 years the west is facing a greatest crisis since the fall midwestern empire attention must be paid after all the west is living in a time of unprecedented peace and prosperity a hard the need 2.0 the political crisis rather civilization that you were on the left or the right you to be pretty anxious about the future but those of our possible to deny and if we are spiritually depleted our peace and prosperity will last and will not preside the litany of statistics by

do want to focus on a few battered interest to christians that i think we realize the christian faith added has long been thought of as a counter example and that is no longer tenable. last year in the american journal of sociology they save the data now shows the u.s. will go the same downward path pioneered by the european cousins. according to the few research center one not of 318 through 29 year-old have plummeted genocide if they ever picked up in the first place. of those who do remain affiliated in some capacity with institutional churches have been informed by a pseudo religion that feasible christianity in name only.

call this moralistic therapeutic deism and uses the language of the vocabulary of historical biblical christianity as a feel-good jesus like philosophy for reclusive did to the post questions society. bayfront that it is the defect religion of most americans today. published 2013 most 18 to 23 of christians surveyed only 40% the personal moral beliefs are grounded in the bible for only 40 percent with an astonishing 61 percent of those emerging adults said they have a moral problem at all with materialism or consumerism

and 30 percent expressed some qualms but said it is not worth worrying about. and all that society is apparently is a collection of autonomous individuals out to enjoy a life. america has lived a long time partly necessitated by the cold war as an interview for the benedick option. by the liberal individualism. the mark of a sociologists kind of phrase that perfectly captures the revolutionary spirit of our time and place, liquid maternity characterized by a conscious break with the authority of the past but solid modernty and that the pace of change has quickened

from the past but still small enough for people to adjust. things seemed solid but now we have moved into the quiet modernity that the pace of change is so rapid that nothing, and no new institutions, habits or customs have time to solidify. with liquid modernity the most successful person is the one who has no allegiance beyond himself for his self-interest can change welty's and believes that will to suit his own preference in that world there is no solid ground anymore proposal from a christian perspective i liquid might be -- liken liquid modernity to the bible of the landmarks for quickly submerged and swept away. lego to the evangelical colleges to talk about "the

benedict option" i am shocked from hearing from professors who say who fought very few of their students who cannot christian schools know very little about the basic facts of the christian faith. this book cannot be turned back. the best we can do is construct with which we could ride it out to make it across the dark sea to a future when we do find a dry land again to start the rebuilding and renewal. so what it is "the benedict option"? the the term comes from the final paragraph of the 1981 book master of virtue that the philosopher explains how the amendment modernity

through the old source of moral order rooted in christianity but the amendment could not produce the authoritative replacement the west has been unraveling for some time and in his view reaching a point of reckoning. liberalism is not sufficient to do the necessary work of finding society together to give members purpose. in the book's conclusion mcintyre compared our present time to rome's collapse indicated our wealth of skiers from our eyes and how fragile the are on the inside. post imperial roman times some men and women of virtue try to shore up the existing social order and focus on building new forms of community to live out there moral traditions with a very

uncertain future. he famously said that today we have very different st. benedict. known as the founder borne in the year for 84 years after the last roman emperor sent to the city of rome as a pious young man to complete his education. but what he saw their disgusted him. he ran to the forest to pray and eventually before he died he founded 12 monasteries from the rule of st. benedict the rule itself is a very plain pamphlet with the running of the of monastery it is not about the spiritual secrets but sets out the order for a living for trading in the

spiritual life if you read it you may be shocked cow plane is the really thought it would be a book that is a mystical sayings but it is plain as meat and potatoes would never guess the key role this book played to save western civilization. after benedick died the monks' spread out all over barbarian ruled europe. they taught them how to pray and crossings and make things better than boston a catastrophe. with their rituals and liturgies and libraries the mall box kept alive the cultural memory of christian rome. because it took a vow of the sacred promise to remain in

a monastery until the end of their life it would be a citadel of light and order during a chaotic time. in this way the benedictine monasteries were like art to carry the faith and cultural memory across the waters obliterated rahman's civilization. it all happened not because benedict did set out to macron great again. [laughter] but because, to best serve the lord and everything else that came after followed from the decision. i rightabout my day visits in his home town i interviewed the of looks of a core values and practices to be applied to every day

christian life with prayer and work and stability and all of these things work together to the den into life giving warder all round us. so was the leader of the monastery that told me the monastery is a sign of contradiction to the modern world. '' the guard rails of disappeared but we hear so captured by the light in the motions of modern life we don't recognize the danger. the forces of dissolution from popular culture are too great for individuals or families to resist rather all we need to a better

selves into unities of faith '' so what does this look like better call to live in the world? physical for the christians to head for the hills to build a high wall? not that all. contrary not all. we have to evangelize we have to serve the neighbors or refill to serve our aboard. withdrawal is not what the benefit option calls for but a strategic separation from the everyday world. i mean that we have to have a virtual wall between ourselves in the world for our spiritual formation in

this hedonistic prost christian society the house side culture is overwhelming we cannot expect to go out into the world to keep the candle of the faith let any more to walk beside the church and expect to keep the candle lit i was then washington nate couple of nights ago evening with an inspiration from the benedick option with an essay that he wrote in 2004 talk about the loss of cultural memory of christianity in how vital the important it is for the church today to tell its own story because we are forgetting. he read "the benedict option" is sent to mccaw be i said what do you think we should do? he said it is all there in the book. do what it says.

i had to get the endorsement from somebody that i respected is quite an honor. so here is the paradox of the benedict option. of the church is a blessing for the world and it will have to spend more time away from the of world deepening its commitment to god god, scripture and to each other. we cannot give to the world will be do not have. yes we should engage with of world but not at the expense of the ourselves that we're support. let me use a couple of examples to illustrate an jeremiad chapter 29 billboards speaks to tell his people in the babylonian exile to integrate into life he brought them into exile for his own purpose and will

deliver them one day before the time being he wanted them to settle there. but the lord warns do not let the profit among you deceive you cannot listen to the dreams that you encourage them to have they are selling lies steven my name. what is that about their word would be profit to told the jewish people exactly what they wanted to hear a confident mood negative comforting popular five but jeremiah and do that they would say that because he lived outside the that exile community he could hear the lord's voice more clearly but somehow the jews in exile had to figure how to obeyed god's commands to integrate into babylonian society while at the same time not to oscillate.

in the book of daniel we read about the three jews that were state officials when the king ordered them to go down those three men refused even on pain of death but as we know from this story he threw them into a fiery furnace but the fire did not consume them. the king repented and restore them to their position. how did they do that i did they live lives completely integrated as did officials but also what the same time develop such a strong faith they were willing to lose everything even their own lives before be trading their god to about down debt that idol? that is in her own

babylonian exile. we have to somehow have a middle path between christian fundamentalist who reject everything and those who love the world so much into engage the culture is something we have to do but if it is the verb in excuse then when this is important and must never revealed a moral cowardice from ourselves. the most peaceful day about the daily lives in babylon that would trade them spiritually so they past. has to be that way with us we are failing at this today the numbers that i cited earlier primarily of

christian fidelity if we don't change our way period and we will not survive as a church. we will be assimilated. with a benedict option talk about the various ways we can and should do this and read about education, work place and the way we use technology and the way we think about an approach sexuality. there is no time to get into all of those but i do want to say one thing about politics. as i was writing the book i expected hillary clinton to win of presidency if that happened it would have been bleak today here some conservative christians

breeding a sigh of relief as if the donald trump victory was clear don't believe it. ims pleased by the nomination of anybody but the religious liberty executive order that we all wanted to see from this president nor receive much enthusiasm of the republican congress to pass legislation or great fears conservative christians may have been played for fools and i desperately hope i am wrong. but get serious even if donald trump for a st. he could not turn back the cultural capt. of liquid modernity because this is far beyond the power of politics. of america had elected billy graham we would still need "the benedict option" i should point out of was writing about this a decade

before the decision that seems to have shocked lot of questions into realization about where we stand in this culture. the bid did not exist with still need teeleven. the core problem is not gay people or liberal democrats or anybody else it is a culture and civilization that has turned its back on christian orthodoxy the problem is us. for me one of the great answers since dante comedy on the in your of the holy mountain dante tells marco he has come from tuscany and the world is the mess there is a social breakdown what can we do puerto day we turn

this around? he says the world is blind and you come from the world. if you want to know how to change the world star with tears self. looking inside your own heart because the problem starts right there. the problem is you. that is good for us and for your speaker to nine. recovery and our world will be the work of centuries. . .

.... .... >> those under their authority

for that kind of future are failing in their duty. but that is in the future. as i see it, the greater problem right now is the steady erosion of authentic chint by individualism and consumerism. we are seeing the rise of an ungodly racism. if we have going to stay true to our faith, i believe we will have to listen to voices from outside and right here right now. authoritative voices from the christian past especially the era of the fathers. how else are we going to tell the difference from those who speak comforting lies we want to hear and those like jerimiah and

preach the word of god. an italian catholic layman and community leaders who is one of the new and different st. benedict of our time. i asked marco, how do you do it? this is marvelous. he said to me quote we invented nothing. we discovered nothing. we are only rediscurving a tradition that was locked away inside an old box. weed forgotten. well, at the time it was a forced forgiving. the benedict option is in one sense a project of preserving the memory of what it is to be christian. hope is memory plus desire. if we remember who we are and desire to make those memories live again we have every reason

to hope. but we cannot ignore the warning that father cash gave me when i visited him first and told him about the benedict option. he said if christian families and communities in the west, catholic, prodstant and eastern orthodox don't do some form of the benedict option then quote they are not going to make it. thank you. [applause] >> we are going to bring the panel up. i would like to turn things over to peter munson, editor of plow.

this evening's event, he took the initiative to make it happen. thank you and you can introduce your panel. >> i should quickly add this event wouldn't have happened without the staff at first thing and the american conservative. we are glad to go together tonight and thank you, rod, for the timely and important words. the purpose of this panel is to go deeper and further into some of the themes you suggested particularly i was struck by robert lewis wilkins' words to you take and it is do it. i hope this is practical oriented forum. there has been a lot of high flying from the helicopter of the analysis of the benedict

theor theory. but this isn't a theory. this is something we can talk about doing. i think i hope that is one thing we can focus on doing tonight. we have the honor of a great distinguished panel. i welcome each of you. ross is a regular columnist for one of our daily newspapers. next to ross is michael wear, when he is the founder of public square strategy focusing on the intersection of faith and politics. he directed faith average for

president obama's 2012 re-election campaign. and served as one of the youngest white house staffers inmodern history and worked an issues like adoption and trafficking. reclaiming hope, lessons learns in the obama white house about the future faith in america, his new book, came out this year. welcome. michael semore is dedicated to the pro-poor, pro-life movement at home and broad. she holds a ph.d from harvard and was a dollar fellow at the john f. kennedy school of government. with her husband, pastor eugene rivers the third. welcome. she co-founded a christian community center in dorchester,

massachusetts. she has been doing a lot of work we have been hearing about and is a plough con trtributocontri well. next to her is my brother randal. he is a bishop of the community movement and with his wife, linda, he established the bird movement there and has gotten back from australia. if you need tips on kangaroo hunting, randy is your man. with that, we will jump in the discussion. the way it will work, just so everyone knows, first ross and michael will give a response to r rod and then rod will have a chance to reply and jacqueline and randal will follow. we will have a discussion and see where it goes. i think it will be very exciting.

so, ross, take it away. >> thank you so much. thank you for all coming. thanks for ron for being the reason we are all here and finally turning this into a book because i feel like i have been on panels having arguments about what we think about the benedict option as long as i have been a journalist. it is wonderful to have a book to go buy and have to argue with and so on. usually on the panels there is a debate like the one ron alluded to where someone says this is well and good but you cannot argue we should jus head for the hills and he tears at -- off his glasses and said i won't go for the hills. i won't play that role of interlock. but i will go half way and say my take on the benedict option is rod is right even if he is

wrong by which i mean this was a very, very gloomy portrait that rod just painted of the future of christianity in the west and particularly in the united states. for those of you who occasionally read our perish newspaper know i am not noted for my wild, sunny optimism and even i occasionally listening to rod and reading his blogs and the page of this fine book do sometimes creak my eyebrow up a little bit and say it is really so bad? i think there are reasons to be doubtful in that i generally have less confidence about all predictions of the future than i did before the startling rise of donald trump including my own predictions about politics but

extending to present trends into the future. in that sense, i think, we are at a place in the story of american christianity where we see through a glass darkly. we can't know for certain what we are looking at when we look at the trends ron discerns is a class of collapse in christianity and an identification of a faith they never held to begin with and had some important effects on the life of the church but doesn't lead to a netherlands and belgium collapse giving no offense to the five remaining christians in the netherlands and belgium. we don't know if that is the scenario we are looking at or if we are looking at something more complete and sweeping as ron suggests. i think there are a lot of reasons and things that make our

situation even more unknowable than usual. for instance, we are 10-20 years into the

>> this is a time of cross pressure. if you take our age to be one of

aggressive sectors and with no morthy causes -- worthy causes we might be led to downgrade, build an arc and ride out the storm. it is today at the very moment when the questions are being asked what is truth. what is justice. what can i hope for. what am i made for. this is where rod offered the most valuable contributions.

christians cannot offer what they don't have. the church's mission is not political success but fidelity. for christians we don't see victory, from a the call to follow jesus transcends culture and time and strips of cultural baggage drawing on the movement of god and history is an option for all orthodox christians and one we should take up. it is one of the mouths in rod's book explains only that to the benefit and flourishing of the individual and community in drawing near to god. despite the challenges, the kingdom of god is available to us. many of us in this room were found by god and god knew exa

exactly where to find us. in the introduction to the divine conspiracy individual christians still hear jesus say whoever hears thes words of mine and does them is like those intelligent people who build their houses around rock standing firm against every pressure. how life giving would it be if their understanding of the gospel allowed them to reply i will do this and devote my life to it. this is the best life strategy i ever heard of and go off to the fellowship and learn how to live in his kingdom as jesus indicates is that. there is nothing wrong with american christianity that would not be fixed by americans becoming more transformed into the image of the christ. in so far as this is the benedict option and one i full oh endorse and consider myself a colabor in promoting and we can

considering this is great gift and blessing to the nation. thank you for this book and openally share it with us this evening and over the last decade -- openly. [applause] >> is it time for? >> yes, rod, you can certainly give response and of course later we'll get into the weeds a little more. >> okay. about the best a writer can hope for is intelligent big hearted readers who give an honest critique and that is what i have been given tonight by my friends. i know we are running a little late so let me quickly go through things. flattery o'connor said when the world is deaf we have to shout.

i admit and i admit the rhetoric is strong but i am trying to wake up a church that is not paying attention. last night in washington, i was talking with a senior administrator at a christian college and i asked him is it just me or do you see a lack of engagement or awareness among christian congregations about the threat to religious liberty that christian institutions face and he said it is not just you and told me the story of what he had to go through in california last year with the state trying to really punish smaller orthodox christian colleges. he said if it had not been for the black church and the archdiocese of los angeles they

don't know what would have happened. he said this christian college administrator said this is one of the great bizarre mysteries of christian public life today. how completely disengaged the local threat is from these very serious threats. if i have exaggerated at all but it helps to wake people up i say look, we have a problem. we have to get engaged. i am happy to own that. i think ross is right and we really don't know if this is going to be a complete belgium style collapse without the great beer. or if it is something more like what russell moore talks about in his book onward about the burning away of mere cultural christianity. if it is what russell moore says and i am grateful for that to a point because cultural christianity tends to serve or has served as more of a vaccine

against taking the gospel seriously. if the country moves beyond notional allegiance to christian teaching we are in serious trouble on life issues. genetic engineering, abortion, and euthanizing. that is not something we can take lightly. in 1969, there was a prediction the future of the church is where we are poorer, we are weak weaker, there are far fewer of us in the west but the people who remain are going to be those who really believe in the gospel and if they act as creative minorities they can transform the world as people see the difference christ has made in our lives. that is what i hope the future will be. i am calling on -- i would like

it if christianity would not decline but we look at the statistics and they are pretty serious. i think the benedict option will energize local churches, christian schools and groups to be creative minorities. the ones that pope benedict called for. as to michael's -- i have more ross things. i will be very quick. well, no, that is it. some of michael's comments i think merkal has made a world error in her migration policy but surely she is correct the answer to the rise of islam in europe ought to be first and foremost a more serious rediscovery of the christian faith by the christian and former christian peoples of europe. on the matter of whether or not i am being to be extremist in my analysis, i understand that makes people really

uncomfortable and it is possible that i have gone too far, but i have to say how do you account for these statistics? ho do you account for the statistics on the millennial's and the rise of the nuns? this is serious. and if you are raising kids in this culture you have to pay close attention and wonder how your kids are going to hold on to the faith and what you need to do in the family and community to make this happen given how influeptial the peer group is on teenagers -- influential. i do believe religious liberty is a paramount importance because so much depends on it. if we lose the right to run our institutions according to what

we know and believe to be true, especially educational institutions, and i said i think christians should engage in other political causes too. i think he has a point maybe i was too impercise in my wording. i believe we should prioritize the fight for religious liberty but not devote ourselves to it exclusel excluse exclusi exclusively. i have to condemn the fake media for extorting my words. there is good news on the legal front. hosana and hobby lobby and i think the broader point stands. as the country grows more and more secular, there will be less importance on the religious life.

a christian elite professor told me most christians in america would be shocked by how utterly ignorant and most of the law professors at a senior institutions are to the practice of religion. they don't get it. this is ultimately because they are training the future american elites. they are the ones who are going to be deciding over the rest of my life the future of religious liberty in america. thank you for your comments and i am happy to hear more from our friends on this side. >> thank you, rod. jacky, we are looking forward to what you have to say. >> thank you very much for inviting me and giving me the opportunity to be here and to really think about what i think is a very important book. i do thing -- think this is a particularly telling time in our culture right now.

for me, i think that the original benedict option is acts 2 verses 42-47. i want to talk about four things. one, that original model. a little bit about the question of is there a danger in rod's bo book of conflating western civilization with christianity? and then the role of the black church around the issue of religious freedom. and finally talk a little bit about my own experience with responding to the original mandates of the benedict option. acts 2, 42-47 reads,

they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. 43 everyone was filled with awe at the many wonders and signs performed by the apostles. 44 all the believers were together and had everything in common. they sold property and possessions to give to anyone every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. they broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising god and enjoying the favor of all the people. and the lord added to their number daily those who were being saved. >> i believe our i believe the the and i remember as an undergrad going to the harvard

christian fellowship and just being bewildered. i was a new christian and thought christianity was supposed to turn your life upside down. your whole life was supposed to be transformed. it was warm milk and cookies and business as usual. it was really much of what rod describes in his book. the concern with consumerism, getting a comfortable life and getting a harvard degree and going on to be extremely financial comfortly. as a pentecostal in our church we take seriously the belief god has the power to heal and work miracles even in the 21st century. it is something that is found in very few churches.

instead, we lead as rod described these lives that are separated from each other, not knowing our neighbors and very often it is a matter of sort of like looking at your watch in church. he went over. when is he going to end? let me check facebook and see what is going on. there is no time for fellowship, connection, or investing in each other's lives or carrying for each other radically as these people did. they met every day. if anybody was in need they were ready to sell what they had to take care of each other. that i believe is the original benedict option. i celebrate this bock because it holds up for me what is really the model for christianity.

what is really tossed bible and which has been overlooked. only four books of the bible were written by people who were involveed in the story. it moved from africa into europe. the early church fathers came from far. christianity will survive.

and christianity is truly a global religion. about two thirds of the world christian's lived in europe. today 1-4 christians lives in sub-saharan africa and 1-8 in asia and the pacific. the share of the population that is christian in sub-saharan africa climbed from 9% in 1910 to 63% in 2010. so they go on to say christianity unlike a century ago is truly a global faith. i think it is important as we talk about the benedict option, the crisis that is facing the united states and western culture, that we take care not to alien that section of the united states that is not white. a growing proportion of the

population. i would like to give my kids this book to read but i think they would not warm to it because i think it is not written to a broad enough audience. i think perhaps one strategy to be explored is to draw on the dynamic holy spirit filled strength in africa and south america belonging to revivals. rod points to the roles of the residing bishop played to the colleges in california. happens to be my husband's bishop. i just want to say this is really important. because a lot of millennial's see the claim to religious fr d freedom as an excuse for religious freedom. we should be championing the cause that live divided and

painful lives of the people who like the same yeks sex and we cond cond condemn them. black people are the ones suffering the most grieve discrimination. it was what inspired our ancestors -- where is my sign? thank you. too often the white search is associated in the mind with

racism rather with championing the cause of the poor. i would say arnold was powerful in influencing my husband on the grounds of harvard really turning him on to his original benedict option. especially his book early christians and why we live in communities. as a result, several of us were members of the jc morris society and traveled to connecticut and saw the community in action. we were struck by it. we went back and were not ready to retreat. we went back and tried to build this idea of community right in the inner city in boston but drawing strength from what we had seen there.

the model of really having shared work that would bind us together. the model of a rich spiritual life with sharing one another's burd burdens spiritually, emotionally and economically. the model of spending time together. really being that christian village that rod writes about. the model of simple living, of not embracing a consumerist culture. i am really grateful to the role that the root house played in h shaping our spiritual lives as we face the challenges of trying to do something like this among the poor where people had not made it. it is even harder to resist the consumerist culture if you have never had it. it is out there, everybody else has it, you have never had a by

bite of the apple. those were challenges we faced. the whole question of how you educate the next generation is a very challenging piece of what we face. i am grateful for the book. grateful for the chance to talk about it. and really to encourage people to embrace this original benedict option. [applause] >> that is great. a lot of what you said resonates in my heart. i am not a scholar. i am not a public speaker. i am actually a pharmacist. i know more about drugs and kangaroos than anything.

i gave up that career to follow jesus as a brother. i come tonight from that angle. more about that later. i want to thank rod for starting this important conversation about how we as christians can more faithfully follow jesus which is what it is all about. it seems the reaction of ideas and the howl of protest and in favor of engagement, this is the main point rod is making. it is the reverse of my own experience in living out my faith. the first point i would like to make is this. building a communal church along the lines rod suggests allows

christians to engage more and more meaningful with our fellow human beings. assimilation is as dangerous as jesus tells us. the stronger the center, that is jesus, the more daring our outreach to the world could be. i believe that we have been able, my wife and i,

to engage more deeply and broadly with society than if he had remained as a private family. linda and i are both farm kids from minnesota. we grew up in what nowadays would be called dysfunctional families. alcoholic father, in my case, abusive in my wife's case. i grew up lutheran. my wife grew up catholic. but faith in jesus didn't really mean anything to us. by our mid 20s we were well on the road to conventional middle class life. we had a kid, two cars, two tvs and very unhappy. through a bible study we came to faith in jesus.

later as we red in acts we were stuck by the community. it made us search for community. we starpted living in communities and this lasted about five years. it was a challenging and exciting.

community life is an inescapable must. those words thrill me today. we came to the brewer hole in 1987. your life since then has been one of intense engagement with every bit of society. i will describe some of this. we have plenty of weaknesses. but to show what community life makes possible.

you might think that is the ultimate with drawl. we lived in rural australia. there are many more kangaroos than people in australia. it wasn't. in the first place, there was the neighborly contact that happens with the locals. barbecues, christmas carols, home repairs, and this extended to my work as a police captain with the new south wales police porch. other members were on the fire brigade and other outreach. as part of stewardship for the earth, we collaborated with local farmers which made a difference in our area.

our community partners with local charities as well as organizations like save the children, our young people volunteer in crises situations and we support them financially. we literally hosted thousands of guests in australia from all over southeast asia. from every from politicians to localal aboriginal leaders leading up to an unforgettable moment when one of their elders blessed the site of a house we were building. linda and i visited the church communities all over australia, thailand, and south korea. would we have done as much as a solitary nuclear family? i doubt it. there are certainly individuals who achieve this level of

connectivety by force of personality but this brings me to my second point. society, especially christian society needs to create space for the weak and broken as well as those with extraordinary talents. only in a communal church can be old and the very young hurting military veterans, disabled, ex-addicts, ex-felons, or simply annoying people like myself find a place where they could be healed and accepted and contribute to life. i share a meal with brothers and sisters every day who answer to these descriptions. we fail to think how we can bury burdens whether economic, medical, emotional, outside of strong communities. where is the love and engaging the world if we don't have time

for the emotionally fragile neighbor? pope francis gets strong right when speaking of the church as field office. building strong churches isn't an option. it is our calling as disciples. my constructive criticism of rod is he is not taking his own posal serious enough. it is wise and important but why stop at benedict when we can go back to the original source of christianity? christians living in full community is how the church began. it is the only way i know of where jesus' teaching in the sermon on the mound is a practical reality. the early church is far more radical than anything rod proposed.

the early christians turned the world up siside down. they shared everything in common. they evangelized to whole known world and refused to participate in violence of any kind including self-defense, military service, abortion and there death penalty. they modeled a new ethic of sexuality and family life that honored equal dignity before god of both men and women. within three centuries they revolutionized their society. nobody can acocuse the early christians of with drawl. this is not a life for the faint-hearted. it requires all or nothing. full time, life time commitment. what ts elliot called the

condition of complete complicity requiring nothing less than everything. it won't bow enough to apply a few aspects to the rule of saint benedict that dubbed nicely into our private lifestyle. how many of us were rich young men who were not able to accept jesus's invitation. ....

>> >> orthodoxy will cure you of that.

but what is now complete our prayer to the lord. i appreciate what you said about the danger of inflating christianity with western culture that is right because christianity is a global revision recognize with the last 10 years to the third orthodox i were made much more beware of the globe will tenets of christianity is booming in the global south as they look to africa of a bite to give a shout out to the cartel -- cardinal but we all live in the west billboard promises the rebates of hal will not go

against the church when he did not say against his church in the west. and from our brothers and sisters in the ward that are bearing witness to christ right now but please don't think that faith is only limited to the west. and i encourage my fellow christians to immerse themselves with the wisdom of the eastern orthodox church that we have so much to learn from each other and to be honest with have a lot to learn from the evangelical brothers said sisters as i have written

about "the benedict option" getting to know their strength and weaknesses because they do believe we all have to work together this is the comments about the black church and did not feel when i was writing "the benedict option" and had the authority to appropriate the experience and i know that they had to deal with lynchings and firebombs and terrorism and headed to the broader church i did not feel right but is my hope

for those who can talk about with more authority to experience what they have to and sister i hope you write that book. and t11 is a general concept is an orientation and it will be look different for the roman catholics but one of the most important evangelical blocks out there with the explainer for these benedick option for the evangelicals somebody needs to give this man a book

contract he knows how to do this it will require all of us to come together in the church as people christians but those that ignore the denomination's but in in the humanism of the trenches that we know we are facing in rebut to help each other before faithful right here and right now. but this is what i want to start the conversation i need someone from the black church myself and for my roman catholic friends because we are all in this together i am convinced of that.

the stronger disinterred the more daring be all reach can beat. with the wife of the catholic community i said was reduced say to those that are withdrawing? because 11 the normal apartments to go to normal catholic parish but they come together in community as a center for scripture steady ed sports fan guarding and meals once a week so what do say to people you are withdrawing? she said that's not true. but we can more meaningful engage the world so this is

about strategic withdrawal from the world you're testimony inspires and delights me and i hope and pray they will write a book about "the benedict option" but these are books i want to read and finally the joy of attracting jesus this is the only witness people have my friends said on a couple of occasions the greatest argument the church has for itself and the duties introduces, these are the

things that can speak to the rational argument. wandering into the cathedral to be cracked over the head. i did know what data there as a christian but knowing that there is something greater than myself. that is what you can speak to people in to get a sacrificial the to serve the pour. these are the doors to get to the truth of jesus christ if you were not joyfully were not doing their bright.

[applause] >> we are getting down to time with only a few more minutes together but to get the chance the beach view that will restrict ourselves to one minute response stibnite this is totally unfair really do that anyway .

there is not day one and a reply to this question but one of the objections that is raised is not about politics and the engagement bendy building blocks of the year talking about interred toxic that is true of individual families of churches and communities and thinking about "the benedict option" thinking about the dark side beside that is radically sealed -- hermetically sealed but he was living "the benedict

option" before he wrote that is the is the inspiring story coming back to his hometown with the traditional orthodox church and both the fees have fallen on hard times. so with that difficulty in struggling of communal life. >> thanks for that net we have to be very important not to expect more out of communities. and we have to be extremely careful in fact, if you read my book that the of lord

broglie in a profound way with idol worship. so that i could react more holy. and i was somebody that was believed in high-school living in a small town. but the downside of the community and then in the book "the benedict option"

although when they were younger the parents went off to live in rural part of the country and every one of those kids that said just make sure that your readers know. >> that is close to one and a. >> interested in the tension between take one step and

then to address that it is your hope to take this so do you feel that value increases? as someone with the spiritual past to appreciate how fragile we are in the a.d. is that we're on the

pilgrimage to gather. repentance and prayer and through serving the lord and others. so if i thought i would find it discouraging. and being led into deeper repentance and is possible as a christian. and so with the anxiety. with the strict orthodox prayer rule because my mind

is so busy increasing in the find is so hard to do. and i believe that the holy spirit use that but then to commit to one hour per day and that is the greatest challenge second possibly do at that time and now seems pretty easily conversion of life is not just one time thing.

>> but with bad sensitivity in the book and then to be racially segregated. and in addition to that and those that our more locally based with been increasing lack of understanding of other cultures of the racial front and get past

segregation. >> i an uninspired by rush -- the southern baptist leader of reconciliation. that this is gospel work that should interest as all this is a problem in my hometown to have the new minister comment at the white church to say we have to be integrated behalf to invite african-americans. his intentions were just but he did not recognize the african americans had history going back to the slave days they had their own traditions and as a black friend of mine said i went to the white church you'll never get me back laugh laugh isn't racial but this is how he had been

raised to worship they are much more pentecostal. that is okay but that does not give the excuse across the racial lines. and the book about the middle-class bubble through the problems of class and how little of us in the white church have to say to those who were working class or poor that we can scarcely conceive of. this will be an enormous area of creativity. and that this same time the journey of a thousand miles even if it has to be plotted out with every single person

before retake the first death and we will never get started. and those which i champion in the book if it is homeschooling goalie for the middle-class but then to have one parent at the home may be a need a higher income. with the efforts to expand that opportunity the behalf to start somewhere as they were writing about the benedict option. >> i and agree very much

with q i went be very interested on how the gospel calls us to give up everything and how that plays into the culture of is that play in? that is of question at the forefront at our mind. in defeat takeoff and the fasting part of the

tradition is seen as terrible how can i go without me to 40 days or dairy? that is what we do. we obey. if you can deny the small things but to say that is the same as sacrificing your life that we are called to do but it has to start somewhere. and i grosso much spiritually and love to eat and drink as everybody can see and i needed very comfortable middle-class existence.

i know during went but that is what i have to do and i have so much to replant pont -- repented upon that will and how these practices with that practice of fasting that they did for many centuries. this could be the first up and how did the three have the courage to stand there to say we will not abandon the aboard this is the way the history of the church of the error the murders because of the middle east

and asia that has something to say to us. reading from their ridings and the interviews as an orthodox priest in the gulag and one of those that were tortured by the communist and then came to america and i read the stories about keeping the faith the torture at the age appropriate levels. [laughter] but to begin suburban in baltimore i tell my kids

this is how close in age. if he can do this house-- suffer and not give up the gospel? we cannot imagine what it is like elsewhere. and those of the history of the church. to institute practices they can help prepare ourselves of the true gospel. [applause]

>> so '02 each of you on the panel and it has been wonderful to spend this time together in the days and weeks to come in maybe sober one another on. [applause] [inaudible conversations]

>> host: welcome to